[BLML] Law 22B vs. 41C

Richard Hills hildalirsch at gmail.com
Tue Oct 20 09:18:13 CEST 2015


Volker Walther:



On Tuesday, October 20, 2015, Volker Walther <bridge at vwalther.de
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bridge at vwalther.de');>> wrote:

> Thanks, that was some help.
>
> In this special case the wrong explanation was given by South, the
> declarer, and East had made the final pass.
>
> So Wests lead prohibited a redraw of East's pass.
> (no doubt was about that.)
>
> If West led out of time  24B leads to 23.
>
> In our discussion someone argued, that a lead of the proper player after
> the end of auction is, according to 22B,  not a LOOT, but finishes the
> Auction (as well as the Clarification ) Period.
> Most people read the law the same way you (and I) did, but I think the
> point is in fact a bit ambiguous.


Richard Hills:

In my opinion not ambiguous.

The irregularity of a Premature Lead = Law 24B (and possibly Law 23).
The irregularity of an Opening Lead Out Of Turn = Law 54 (and possibly Law
23).

Best wishes,

Richard Hills

Volker Walther:

>
> If facing a lead, made by the proper player during the Clarification
> Period, may be a LOOT we should not define the end of the Clarification
> Period to be the moment when this lead is faced.
> This is a kind of circular reference and makes it difficult for LHO
> (West) to decide whether he is allowed to face his lead.
>
> In fact our idea of  22B is   "The auction period ends when, subsequent
> to the end of the auction as in A2, and after all players agree that the
> auction is clarified, either defender faces an opening lead."
>
>
> Greetings, Volker
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 15.10.2015 um 18:46 schrieb agot:
> > Le 15.10.2015 17:02, Volker Walther a écrit :
> >> Did we have that before? I can not find it.
> >>
> >> South became declarer, but there was a wrong explanation so he called
> >> the TD. While TD is asking what had happened,  West faces his opening
> >> lead.
> >>
> >> Should we apply  law 24B?
> >>
> >> According to 22B facing the opening lead ends the auction period.
> >>
> >> According to 41C the opening lead has to be faced after the
> >> Clarification Period, which is part of the Auction Period.
>
>
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> Blml mailing list
> Blml at rtflb.org <https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/62/>
> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml


On Tuesday, October 20, 2015, Volker Walther <bridge at vwalther.de
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bridge at vwalther.de');>> wrote:

> Thanks, that was some help.
>
> In this special case the wrong explanation was given by South, the
> declarer, and East had made the final pass.
>
> So Wests lead prohibited a redraw of East's pass.
> (no doubt was about that.)
>
> If West led out of time  24B leads to 23.
>
> In our discussion someone argued, that a lead of the proper player after
> the end of auction is, according to 22B,  not a LOOT, but finishes the
> Auction (as well as the Clarification ) Period.
> Most people read the law the same way you (and I) did, but I think the
> point is in fact a bit ambiguous.
>
> If facing a lead, made by the proper player during the Clarification
> Period, may be a LOOT we should not define the end of the Clarification
> Period to be the moment when this lead is faced.
> This is a kind of circular reference and makes it difficult for LHO
> (West) to decide whether he is allowed to face his lead.
>
> In fact our idea of  22B is   "The auction period ends when, subsequent
> to the end of the auction as in A2, and after all players agree that the
> auction is clarified, either defender faces an opening lead."
>
>
> Greetings, Volker
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 15.10.2015 um 18:46 schrieb agot:
> > Le 15.10.2015 17:02, Volker Walther a écrit :
> >> Did we have that before? I can not find it.
> >>
> >> South became declarer, but there was a wrong explanation so he called
> >> the TD. While TD is asking what had happened,  West faces his opening
> >> lead.
> >>
> >> Should we apply  law 24B?
> >>
> >> According to 22B facing the opening lead ends the auction period.
> >>
> >> According to 41C the opening lead has to be faced after the
> >> Clarification Period, which is part of the Auction Period.
> >
> > There is no contradiction here. After three consecutive passes in
> > rotation, there is a clarification period, then the lead is placed face
> > down, then there is another clarificaiton period (so that leader's
> > partner may ask in tempore non suspecto), there the opening lead is
> > revealed, and this is the last event in the auction period.
> >
> > So, in facing one's lead before the (first or second) clarification
> > period has ended, West has committed an irregularity. His card becomes a
> > LOOT, and he will have to lead it. But the auction period hasn't ended,
> > because no *legal* lead has been made.
> > Most probably West will not suffer from that. But if the TD decides to
> > walk the cat back because of the wrong explanation, and allows N/S to
> > change their bid, then there is a MPC on the table. We know how to deal
> > with this.
> > Else, the LOOT in placed aside, and South may ask for any clarification
> > he wants.
> >
> > There is a remote possibility of his haste carrying UI that he doesn't
> > want partner to know what he wants to know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >    Alain
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blml mailing list
> > Blml at rtflb.org
> > http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blml mailing list
> Blml at rtflb.org
> http://lists.rtflb.org/mailman/listinfo/blml
>
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