[BLML] Tuesday night at the Belconnen Bridge Club
ehaa at starpower.net
Wed Nov 21 15:19:56 CET 2012
On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:46 PM, Robert Frick wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:26:58 -0500, Eric Landau <ehaa at starpower.net> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 2012, at 9:02 AM, Robert Frick wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:15:12 -0500, Eric Landau <ehaa at starpower.net>
>>>> Whichever explanation (a) indicated that you had no explicit agreement,
>>>> (b) related all the mutual ("partnership") understandings that the
>>>> person explaining considered relevant, and (c) told no lies, is
>>>> "correct". Probably both of them.
>>> Well, suppose the bidder assumed that 3NT was gambling (which is
>>> and would have answered that way.
>> That would have been MI. The problem stipulated that 3NT was
>> undiscussed (see (a) above).
>> But we don't actually care what the "bidder assumed". That's why the
>> protocol is for his partner to respond to inquiries.
>>> And the partner didn't know (as in the
>>> story) and said they are both played equally at the club. And you as
>>> director are supposed to presume mistaken explanation instead of misbid
>> ...*in the absence of evidence to the contrary*. When there is
>> "evidence [the Director] is able to collect", he must rule "base[d]...
>> on the balance of probabilities... in accordance with the weight of the
>> evidence", which makes the default presumption in the absence of
>> evidence irrelevant.
> Which makes that sentence in the laws irrelevant. Which is what you just
> said. But I sincerely doubt you are interpreting it the way it was meant.
>>> (whatever that means here), but you director can figure out the correct
>> If "you director" can't figure out "the correct answer" how can you ever
>> make an MI determination? This discussion is about what a "correct
>> answer" is; if it is enlightening, it will help us "figure [it] out"
>> more consistently.
>>> And suppose the player saying 50-50 forgot that good players tend to
>>> this as gambling.
>> He shouldn't go there even if he does remember it. Your subjective
>> evaluation of partner's bridge ability is not a matter of "partnership
>> understanding" and has no place in disclosure.
> So I was allowed to say that 90% of the people at our bridge club play
> RKCB, even though I was fairly certain my partner did not? I don't think
> you want that. (She was weak and weak players tend to play regular
I won't try to judge whether you are technically "allowed to", but I don't much care. I'm more concerned with what you *should* say, and when you know it would be misleading, you shouldn't say it. Obviously, if you say "90%", they're going to think you expect it to be likely. Here I'd tell the oppos that we have no explicit agreement, and that at our regular club this is ace-asking, but ambiguous between regular and KC Blackwood.
Where I live, it would qualify as "general bridge knowledge" that one responds to 4NT ace-asking as regular Blackwood absent a specific agreement to the contrary.
>>> So his explanation met all of the criteria you listed
>>> above and hence is "correct", but it has the problem of being wrong.
>> Wrong how? See (c) above.
>>> So you director figure out the correct answer and rectify for that.
>>> not me, and not for the EBU or ABF or probably even ACBL. But I am
>>> to describe how your position works.
>> The basis of my position is that when explaining partner's call to the
>> opponents you should try to be as helpful and forthcoming as you can.
>> The point of my reply to Richard was that if you offer as helpful and
>> forthcoming an explanation as you can of the relevant considerations
>> when posting the problem to BLML -- as Richard typically does, and seems
>> to have done here -- you should be able to do the same at the table.
> I like your position a lot more than I like just saying "no agreement" or
> "no understanding".
> And saying everything you know satisfies L406(a). And the
> not-in-the-lawbook principle that the opponents are entitled to know what
> you know.
> Just to be clear, the best of intentions do not necessarily satisfy Law 20
> or Law 75, which require a player to give the correct partnership
> explanation, remembered or not.
Absolutely. You must always give a correct explanantion of your partnership understanding if you have one. This thread has been about what to do when you know that you do not have a directly applicable partnership understanding. We all agree that you must disclose that you have no specific understanding about the call in question. The issue here is what else -- if anything -- you should add to that.
> And the application of Law 12 requires that there be only one explanation
> that the opponents are entitled to. By allowing partners to give two
> different but correct answers, you undermine Law 12 rectifications.
I don't get this. Opponents only get one explanation from one player, and if there's an MI damage issue, the TD must decide if that explanation was satisfactory or not. I don't see how what might have occurred had you had a similar auction starting on the other side of the table should matter at all. You can't expect a hypothetical explanation given by the other player in the reverse case to be word for word identical to the actual one.
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ehaa at starpower.net
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